If youre worried about frequent moves disrupting your family life, picking a community with few basing locations is a viable option for Active Duty. Yes, the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is the best it gets you to all of your goals the fastest. You'll be a WO for three-ish years. In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. I'm retiring in two years and it's not even to go to the airlines! For anyone facing a 10-year military pilot ADSC/O, this means asking yourself: What is it about military flying that made you want to do it in the first place?. The policy also applies to Army Reserve and National Guard components, but their obligated service will remain part-time, he said. It only increases your overall training costs because typically you have less time available to retain these people. I retired in 1998. It's a great time to apply to become a pilot, and [Soldiers] can get in with a high school degree. While the ADSO goes into effect in October, its effect on retention wont be felt for at least six years after the first ten-year ADSO class graduateslikely not until late 2027. It didn't help that the CSA took advantage of his own program by taking private military flight lessons and was awarded his pilots wings while a 4 star. The U.S. Army Aviation Center Survival Escape Resistance and Evasion (SERE-C) course. D. Your email address will not be published. Do most of your fellow aviators love it? The earlier you can Palace Chase, the less difference there is between a regular Active Duty pilot and someone following Stans plan. self refer to ASAP, mental health, yea you can get out but you're not going to fly on the outside. There are also discussions within the Army aviation community of additional changes that would make becoming a warrant officer even less appealing. Flying helicopters looks pretty dope though. Even during a deployment when demand for flight hours was high, the more senior Warrant Officers were flying double that of the more junior pilots. Increasing the ADSO, though, does not require datait is guaranteed to increase retention. Looks like 11-11.5 year total commitment. Getting in just under the wire. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. The 10 year ADSO was based on whether or not you pinned WO1/2LT by a certain date, not by when you started or graduated IERW. This may be because the Army has not undertaken the same in-depth approach to understanding this problem as other services. . Pasted as rich text. Powered by Invision Community, https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. We are very, very interested in seeing more applications, he added. Think about approving some ETPs. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. A 10 year ADSO on a guy that already is a senior E6/E7 probably didn't make a lot of sense at the time as well. The big gotcha of the Active Duty pilot career path is that on the day you earn your wings, you also get hit with a 10-year Active Duty Service Commitment (ADSC). Thereafter, the ADSO incurred pursuant to the Army Branch for ADSO Program will be served concurrently with any other non-statutory ADSOs. Though I agree that there is a retention problem, especially within aviation, I'm not sure the Army is focused on the right issue here. I'd sign a 15 year ADSO if they gave me an age waiver (I'm only 35 not 65!). Time will tell. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. In my next 6 years I flew a total of 50 hoursAnd it's not for lack of trying, I was just in assignments (that I didn't ask for and tried to get out of) where there were no aviation units around. People are tired. I would have stayed in for another 10+ years if I had the opportunity to revert to Warrant Officer and fly more, but that opportunity doesn't exist. pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the Why not allowing retired personnel to do what they always wanted? Im a turd for putting 2021. The institution of the new ADSO stands in testimony to a DOD organization entrenched in process and procedure at the expense of adjustment to any current reality. It is extremely frustrating to see some officers and senior NCOS make such short sighted decisions to solve complex issues without finding the cause, and not conducting any type of research. (Well assume a move to the Guard or Reserve after completing your initial 10-year UPT ADSC. Im scheduled to graduate, 1st or 2nd week of September. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The articles and other content which appear on the Modern War Institute website are unofficial expressions of opinion. They just can't have over 8 years TIS without a waiver. Service commitments are different for Warrant Officers in the Army Reserve and the Army National Guard. On the reset year, units focused on team building, socializing, individual skills, and professional development. The congressional study on pilot retention noted, One of the most important variables in meeting pilot requirements is the retention rate, as this is used to estimate what level of new pilot production is needed.. The severity of the decline in recruiting will be unknown until the recruiting data comes in from the first affected class of cadets and warrant officer candidates. But, we want as many people as we can get to apply. In the same discussion about retention data, Brig. The future of Army aviation depends on retaining the pilots in whom it invests so much. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. Yes, life there is fantastic, and its important to get there as quickly as you can because Seniority is Everything. I still don't understand how this ADSO extension is going to fix any of those issues, though it may act as a "gotcha" to get people "over the hill" in their Army career where they wouldn't feel like a transition at 10-12 years of service would be a good decision. If you receive the Grad School option, the option costs you nothing because GrADSO runs concurrent with your flight school ADSO. We should approach our congressmen to change the re-entry rules to allow ATPs. Does anyone know the current selection breakdown of street to seat vs prior service? They can surely find that amount in the Enlisted ranks if WARRANTED. NG will have 10 years. SUPERSEDED AR 600-8-29, 02/25/2005; SUPERSEDED ARMY DIR 2019-30, 10/01/2019: Footnotes: https://armypubs.army.mil 03-APPLICABLE TO ARNG UNITS: Security Classification : UNCLASSIFIED: Dist Restriction Code : A APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE; DISTRIBUTION IS UNLIMITED: Changes 1 Sacknuts93 3 yr. ago Probably not. Well see that the Active Duty option is still a good deal, that the overall difference isnt so great, and well see why youre better off pursuing either than trying to fulfill a non-pilot commissioning commitment before trying to pursue the Ultimate career path. Signal: The IT department of the Army. I would also say if the Army wants to recruit more street to seat, I would require those people to attend Basic Training at FT Benning and intensify the military training for non-prior service WOCs. Im in shape, arguably intelligent, and have at least ten good years of service left in me yet an age waiver will not be considered for aviation for either OCS or WOCS. , I knew to ask lots of questions and take the time to dig down to the primary factors motivating this line of thinking. So now the prior Enlisted must do at least 11.5 years and advance to the grade of W3. You can post now and register later. I'm in better shape today than I was 10 years ago. The, exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. Like many personnel issues though, the age limit is probably ripe for a re-look given that people now live healthier, more active, and longer lives. Traditionally, the Army has not struggled to recruit pilots. They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. The Army is the only service which allow non college graduates in being Officers and pilots as we know. Id always wanted to be a pilot and didnt know anything else, so I said the Doolie equivalent of Shut up and take my money! (There was a lot more Sir and Maam involved.) I'd love to see credit for the photo. We dont have good measurements out there right now to tell us why an aviator is getting out of the force. Without useful data, the Army cannot implement targeted retention solutions. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and getting kicked to the curb as a furlough. Laws and regulations that govern military personnel may The Army will continue to honor all GRADSO contracts for officers from YGs 2006-2013. If ATPs are granted, I'll be the first one to sign up as a warrant officer. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. While I completely understand the desire of people to fly, there is more to it than that. The new policy doesnt include Soldiers currently in training, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 William S. Kearns, aviation and officer policy integrator for the Armys G-1 office. However, if you missed that boat youre far better off taking an Active Duty UPT slot than trying Stans way and doing 5 years as in a non-flying job. Welcome back, fellow aviators! There's the technical expertise that goes along with it as well. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. If you havent already read, Welcome back to Part 2 of our series about career progression for Air Force pilots, from the pilot perspective. The Army says it needs the UH-72 for training because it teaches the use of glass cockpit and other advanced technology. There are a lot more BCTs, SF groups, SFABs and NG/USAR units than there are CABs. A regular Active Duty pilot career path. Be older than 18, but not more than 33 years at the time of board selection (Active Component (AC), USAR, and ARNG) . The change comes as the cost and requirements for aircraft have increased across the board, Kearns said. The AvB is essential to retain Officers with an Army aeronautical rating, who are critical to the overall success of the Army's mission. The program offers an incentive to remain on active duty in aviation service for either 3 or 5 years, beginning at ADSO expiry or contract approval date, whichever is later. It doesn't matter that the WOFT contract I signed this week states that it is a 6 year ADSO - the Army can do and change what it wants. I crushed the SIFT, passed my flight physical, have a great OML standing, etc., so I should have a good chance of getting my top pick. There is no replacement theory for ARFORGEN they decided to just shelve it and go with "let's make everyone miserable all the time". One of the reasons for the increased ADSO was related to demand from the private sector for pilots. ROTC Scholars have a 4-year commissioning ADSO. A RAND Corporation studyfound that even $35,000 a year would not be sufficient to stem the flow of Air Force pilotsthe study concluded a bonus cap between $38,500 and $62,500 would be necessary to make a meaningful impact. Before trying to add more pilots, or change quality of life (which I don't think they're trying to do), they should look at leveling the demands on pilots within the ranks. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. While its not impossible, and BogiDope can absolutely help you get there, this is far from guaranteed. The report focused on the unmet demand for pilots in the commercial aviation sector that has attracted military pilots. Hes likely deployed at least 3 times, if not more, and has also spent many weeks TDY. Subject to the needs of the Army, newly rated aviators should be used in operational flying duty positions immedi-ately after their successful completion of Army aviation flight training. This plan assumes that Stan can get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit at this point. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The Army is making those who want to go through flight school incur a 10 year active duty service obligation (ADSO) as it's "fix" for pilot retention. The first step the Army must take is to implement exit surveys for pilots to determine why they are leaving. It explains how to perform well in your training, I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a. is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. Also get's a TS which is money, but dealing with army IT infrastructure is frustrating. The ARMY should allow ATP for all prior service men willing and fit to fly. They used their experience to mentor and groom all the other warrants around them including myself. This eventually allows you to retire a full four years earlier than any other military aviator. West Point graduates have a 5 year commissioning ADSO. The Army, by contrast, could only say that Army senior leaders recognize there are growing civilian opportunities for Army pilots. This can exceed a 6 year obligation. These trips have to be funded at his own expense and would require him to use leave that wont be available for family trips. . Must be a volunteer just like airborne. "We probably need to look at it and adjust it a . I'm not ignoring anything that has been posted within this thread -- again, it's all been awesome -- but I want to feel as sure as possible that the opinions expressed here are an accurate assessment of the average Army Aviation experience. 6 years is a masters degree, 10 years is 2 years longer than a PH. 10 is a big commitment either way. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Typical Army of not addressing the real issues. Probably a 11-11.5 year commitment. Anyhow, a 10 year ADSO is an ungodly amount for a branch without a proper Aviation culture. I have a high schooler who is applying to engineering programs for school and is interested in an ROTC path that might include aviation. But ifonline discussions are any indication, this ADSO will turn away a lot of prospective pilots. Expect bonuses to disappear as well. Posted on . That's my 2 cents. After all, it is the warrant officer exodus to the airlines that has driven the Armys pilot retention focus. I wouldnt put it past B Co to drop incorrect information and later say we didnt say that.. WASHINGTON -- Starting in October, commissioned and warrant officers selected for initial entry flight training will be required to serve at least a decade once they become an Army aviator, according to an all Army activity message published Aug. 12. I know there are exceptions to the rule, and I know some people haze junior warrant officers. Deployed Civil Engineers https://www.dvidshub.net/image/491088/deployed-civil-engineers. Why or why not? Your previous content has been restored. Lets compare these options to see why. This ADSO will likely cause a sharp decline in recruiting among cadets selecting their branches and enlisted soldiers and civilians interested in becoming Army pilots. Plus, you will also be earning full GI Bill benefits AT THE SAME TIME. These cadets may not be willing to forgo an extra four years of civilian work experience to serve as aviation officers. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. You cannot paste images directly. This is the second part of a series about choosing between military and civilian career options. There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. The DoD report to Congress included a description of Air Force efforts to assess the problem: The Air Force gathered data on what drives separations from an October 2015 Fighter Pilot Retention Air Force Smart Operations for the 21st century event, the 2015 Air Force Exit and Retention surveys, the August 2017 Dedicated Aircrew Retention Teaming Summit, and a series of three aircrew retention crowdsourcing surveys sent to 9,000 aircrew members that culminated in March 2018. I have done more CTC rotations and in general "useless bs" since being aviation than I ever did infantry. Just so we know I'm not a whiny do nothing: seven deployments, six combat for a total of 70 months and 66 months respectively. Hopefully with the new 10 year ADSO aviation will assess more senior NCOs. When I got selected it was a 60/40 split between street to seat and prior. How to Join and Requirements Scholarship Opportunities Cadet Life , Network, As the COVID-19 crisis continues to drag on, I cant help asking my crystal ball how things are going to shake out. In a worst-case scenario, hes looking at: Wow, thats a lot of moving and time away from home! When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and Start With Why. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The Army only draws between 300-400 non prior WOFT applcants yearly. If you want military aviation to be a part of your life for more than 10 years, possibly even 20+ years, you should pursue any path that will get you there! That seems like a lifetime to an 18 year old. There's an easy answer to this the oblivious, tone-deaf culture of "readiness" that GEN Milley fostered while serving as the CSA. Not difficult for the Army in finding 400 additional career minded E-3 to E-7 for the WOFT program if need be. Serving on Active Duty is also the only way to get an overseas flying assignment. No additional time added with a BRADSO. Air defense branch offering $60,000 bonus for warrant officers, New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation, New Aviators to incur 10-year service obligation. The pay raise was the first in two decades to help balance pilot numbers at all ranks and stay competitive with the civilian market. I'm roaring and ready to go. However, Army aviation should not be compared with the other military branchesnot least because of the widely varying costs of producing pilots. Press J to jump to the feed. Especially since TN he Chinooks are B Co 2-104 from CTARNG and I was the CDR and PC sitting in the left of the Chinook in the foreground on the left. Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines..
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