The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? Wont last!. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. . One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. Mine is very accurate. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. Grow up, you aint all that! COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. is the manual safety a kit you add? Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. These officers are not gunfighters. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. The truth is the absolute WORST semi-autos that Sig, H&K, Walther, Beretta or Glock makes today are more reliable than the best semi-autos made 40 years ago, by far. The new Kirk does suck. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. D. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. Liberal, Conservative. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. Stinking Lawyers and quota cops. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. there is no better. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. No, it doesnt. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. No autographs, No self taken pictures. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. Fine. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. Give me a break. . ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. Thats fine. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. As they should. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. how do I get one for my P320? No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. You couldnt ask questions. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. Anyway around here they do. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. Hey, Im sitting here staring at my P320, waiting for it to go bang! Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! Fair enough. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. BAM. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. Seems a bit apologetic to me. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! The problem was strikers. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. Thats SIGs term for a recall. It has nothing to do with Glock. Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. , 54 people all shooting themselves. Folks disagree on brands. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Too Many Accidents It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. Kyle . So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. The round went downrange so nobody was hurt. Really? With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. Theyre the only product that is not. Legal Penalties. (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. The Hide Armory. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. congrats. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer It has been flawless so far. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. Look a fanboy. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. According to Section 22.05 of the Texas Penal Code, engaging in deadly conduct with a firearm is considered a felony of the third degree. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. Excellent work. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? The P320 pistol is a dog. LOL! Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. Theres a couple of possibilities. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. U.S. lawsuits A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? A fine of up to $10,000. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest.
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